Yeah, whatever you say Chobani yogurt.
Yeah, whatever you say Chobani yogurt.
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Yeah, whatever you say Chobani yogurt.
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This just in, scientists are supernatural beings? I missed the point again, didn't I?
I think the magic belongs to the person that chose the size of their containers.
Ah yes, let's get rid of all this science stuff. Nobody needs that.
I saw some period discussing natural stimulants. I wanted to point out that caffeine is a natural product too.
I guess plastic tubs and foil vacuum seals grow on trees now.
I think they are referring to this http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/07/19/156997600/high-tech-shortcut-to-greek-yogurt-leaves-purists-fuming
gah. such nonsense. amazing they don't consider things LIKE GIANT FACTORIES AND TRANSPORT COMPANIES to be 'science'. /facepalm
Marketing?
I believe the technical term is "greenwashing"…Â
Lactobacillus species in general, and Lactobacillus casei  in particular, are some of the most studied organisms around.Â
<<Ulukaya treats these machines like trade secrets. He won't let me take a picture of them. They're a critical piece of his booming business, "and it's not easy to get them," he says. "It takes a year to get them. So you have to plan ahead in order to make it." >>
— Isn't reverse engineering common practice among scientists?
So, if no science was used in the making of this product, assuming the claim is true for a minute, how would they know that it's 100 calories?
More importantly, what does it matter that they were got to 100?
Did someone sayyyyyyyyyyyyyy……SCIENCE?! *points at dilz*
Like bread, humans can not subsist on science alone. For example, "howmatters" is how Japan destroyed the US auto industry. It does matter and saying it is important. Many, many books have been written on it and America, in particular, still doesn't really get it. Â Also note that Chobani is not using the term "science" the same way commenters are using it here. This thread represents the frustratingly self centered side of the, what, "new science movement"?
Cool arbitrary nonsense, Jeremy.
I don't get it.
+Hjalti Leifsson That you don't understand does not make it arbitrary. That you claim it is arbitrary says more about you than the statements I made.
+Luka Hadžiegrić What part don't you get? The part where I say that Chobani may be motivated by art and culture as well as the science of yogurt whereas people attempting to replicate only the end form are not? The part where I say that Chobani is not using the word "science" like it is being used in this thread? Or the part where I mention Japan? The part where I say that people who claim to be science minded can be annoyingly self satisfied close minded gits? Or some other more general state of confusion? I'd like to help but need to know where to start.
+Jeremy Stark I was just referring to the message on yogurt cover. It doesn't make sense to me in any context.
Ha, ok :)! It is a response to what is going on in the link I posted. It's really not complicated or contraversial. People are just hung up on their use of the word "science". Take a look at the ingrediants of the cheap low calorie yogurts and imagine what their design and manufacturing process must look like. That is what Chobani is calling attention to.
+Jeremy Stark Yes, we get that – but it's important which words you use to express this. Intent often falls by the wayside when words are not carefully chosen.
Grammar and how one words something is important: http://hypervocal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/comma24.jpeg
+Trevor Brown I agree. What irked me is the unwillingness to understand what Chobani meant and instead engage in smug condescension, something I've become tired of from the "science" crowed.
What Chobani meant says little about the message they convey.
+Jeremy Stark Haha, I think you're taking us all too seriously. Chobani stated something stupid, and we're all just having some fun.
I know 🙂 I don't know why this thread, of all threads, flipped my switch this morning. I'm just tired of a pervasive lack of perspective from some science circles. The meaning of words is in their use. Chobani is not saying anything stupid here. I know exactly what they mean and I suspect so does everyone else on this thread. They are not being anti science, they are being anti fakery. I know you enjoyed that yogurt!
The message is an direct appeal to the naturalistic fallacy.Â
Nature did it (trying to imply, that did something awesome.)
No need to find further subtler meanings.
Read the article I linked. That is what they are responding to. There are a lot of crapy greek yogurt scams in the dairy isle and good for Chobani for taking a stand. There is such a thing as a Natural process (bacterial cultures) vs. an industrial one (emulsifiers, thickeners, whatever). We have the words "Natural" and "Industrial" so we can make distinctions. For yogurt, I'll take Natural.
And how many people who read that message in their yogurt will know what Chobani meant? Without knowing the back story this sounds exactly like an anti-science appeal. That's a problem in a culture where many prominent figures hold their anti-science ideas proudly.
Maybe if the person reading the lid is an idiot. But that problem would predate the lid. As the lid stands it says that Chobani uses a natural process and not one designed by scientists who came up with a way to get some of the qualities through an industrial process. They could have used the word "industrial" but it would have lacked a certain aesthetic charm. Lets not kill aesthetics because some people are idiots.
Also, I'm cracking my last Chobani and checking the lid.
Mine says "Welcome to preservative-free yogurt made with only natural ingredients. Chobani, How Matters."
Science is safe… for now.
I'm sorry, but I think you're wrong. It has nothing to do with being an idiot. An anti-science reading of that text is a reasonable and probably most common interpretation.
+Jeremy Stark: Â "There is such a thing as a Natural process (bacterial cultures)"
— A "Natural process" would imply fermenting the milk inside the gut of a calf and eviscerating the animal to recover the "yoghurt." Also, there's nothing "Natural" in enriching the milk with cream.
Or natural could mean just letting the bacteria do its thing in whatever container it was in as opposed to adding something like corn starch because you don't know the first thing about keeping bacteria. When you really step back, everything is "natural", right? The question is where is it best to draw a distinction between natural and man made. I think your distinction is designed to support your point, not to provide value in common language.
+Dustin Wyatt You'll have to find those people because I'm not one. I think your stance is reactionary an unscientific. We can both support science and allow for science to be set in a pejorative light when convenient in communicating a point. They did not say science is bad. They said that, for yogurt at least, natural is better. Given the industry, it's a valid point usefully communicated.
There's nothing "natural" in fermenting foods and beverages. They can control the fermenting time, the temperature, the air, the substrate of  fermentation, the bacterial or yeast strains inoculated. The fermentation industry is the paradigm of biotechnology and one of its earliest examples.
Also, as I mentioned before, adding cream to the milk (previously artificially separated from more milk) has nothing of "natural" either.
+Jeremy Stark I don't disagree with you or Chobani's intent.  Or rather, I don't have an opinion as I don't like greek yogurt but I can certainly understand that it's possible that Chobani's processes are better than others.
You say:
We can both support science and allow for science to bet set in a pejorative light when convenient in communicating a point
The problem here is that it was not only ineffectual in communicating the point unless you know the backstory, it was also completely tone-deaf given the zeitgeist of the USA if the goal wasn't to appeal to the anti-science, all-natural, chemicals-are-bad, the-doctors-are-lying-to-us, grouping of beliefs.
I certainly don't disagree with you that there is a pervasive "rah, rah science" culture. Â While that culture might of latched on to this issue…it doesn't change the fact that it's a tone-deaf thing to put on a yogurt lid.
lol… in any case, message needs to be clear. This one is not. But than again, this might be good pr since today is trendy to be "all natural".
This lid should be "hot on Google". It really gets to the heart of the nature/science dichotomy. +Dustin Wyatt, you did recycle it, right?
+Jeremy Stark
"As the lid stands it says that Chobani uses a natural process and not one designed by scientists who came up with a way to get some of the qualities through an industrial process."
How did you get that from "Nature got us to 100 calories, not scientists # howmatters" ?
My favorite part of this misguiding lid is the fact "100 calories" comes from a purely scientific process of measurement. Science certainly did directly and literally get them to 100 calories… it's not even arguable that this is true. At the end of this, all that is really clear here is that this lid is nowhere near as clever as it was intended to be.
+Trevor Brown I got it from understanding what they meant. Folks who look for meaning in the words alone wind up in situations demonstrated on this thread… meaninglessness. Words stand in for meaning, they have no meaning without reference to something. What they reference is to be found in the perspective of the person speaking them, not in your own perspective. To the degree that we can share a perspective we can understand one another. Everyone on this thread both knows what Chobani means and at the same time claims that Chobani should either mean something else or say it differently. Challenge: Come up with another way for Chobani to say what you already know they meant.
+Jeremy Stark nobody has time to decrypt messages on the lid of the yogurt. If they can't be clear it's their loss. You have to acknowledge that this message makes no sense without context.
+Jeremy Stark I understand your defense here, I too believe people should think deeply about certain things… I just don't think yogurt lids should typically be included in the list of things we can expect everyone to consider to this degree. I work in advertising, and I often am tasked with creating copy not unlike the words on this lid… when something can be misconstrued this badly it's simply not good copy.
I also don't think the message is any good – not only is it incredibly hypocritical (as others have noted), but it's also dragging the term "scientist" through the mud. Scientists don't sell people potentially harmful foods… more often than not corporations do (corporations much like Chobani.) To think scientists are out there making the world a more dangerous place… it's just silly. They chose to use that identifier here, however, so they are very directly attaching a negative connotation to the term.
I don't think this is their intention, but I do think (hope) they didn't give this much thought. I think they were just trying to pander to their "wholesome" audience (because, you know, if it's not using a method that's at least 50 years old can we REALLY trust it?!)
Well, bottom line for me is that Chobani uses milk from GMO grain fed cows. Their push to expand with new facilities will further expand the use of gmo grain.
#howmatters
http://gmoinside.org/gmo-yogurt-how-does-your-favorite-brand-stack-up-2/
That's good.